Transcript of August 10th, 2004 IRB hearing

Ms. Sobstel: Margaret Sobstel

Ms. Lamont: Thank you. Also present at the hearing today is Refugee Protection Officer Mr. Jeremy Fraser, who will be asking you some questions in a few moments. Before the hearing began, a very brief pre-hearing conference took place, attended by myself, your counsel, and the RPO. We confirmed at that time that we all have the same documents relevant to your claim. These documents have been entered into evidence as exhibits. The original is on the master file and your counsel and the RPO have copies. During the pre-hearing conference I also advised your counsel of additional issues raised by your claim that require additional information. These issues are outlined on a screening form, dated April the 29th, 2004, and it was sent to your counsel in advance of the hearing. I advised your counsel and the RPO that I am leaving the issues that were identified at that time; however I've also added the issue of harrassment versus persecution. Is that an accurate summary of what we discussed at the pre-hearing conference, counsel?

Ms. Sobstel: Yes, that's correct.

Ms. Lamont: Mr. Fraser?

Mr. Fraser: Yes.

Ms. Lamont: It is necessary for you to assure me that the evidence you will be providing me today will be truthful. At this time I?m going to ask you both to stand up and raise your right hand and take an affirmation, or if you have a holy book that you would like to hold, you may do so.

Ms. xxxxx: I don't happen to carry one.

Ms. Lamont: Okay. Do you solemnly affirm that the evidence you're going to be providing me today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. Deppeller: I do.

Ms. xxxxx: Yes.

Ms. Lamont: Thank you. Please be seated. I am presuming that in today's hearing we are going to begin with the male claimant; is that correct, counsel?

Ms. Sobstel: Yes.

Ms. Lamont: Before Mr. Fraser begins asking questions, I'm going to ask you to
place the Personal Information Forms in front of the claimants, and ask them
to verify.

Ms. Sobstel: Mr. Deppeller, do you recognize this document?

Mr. Deppeller: That is my signature.

Ms. Sobstel: And on page 13?

Mr. Deppeller: That is my signature.

Ms. Sobstel: And Toni, do you recognize this document?

Ms. xxxxx: Yes.

Ms. Sobstel: And is that your signature also on page 13?

Ms. xxxxx: Yes.

Ms. Lamont: Are all of the contents of these Personal Information Forms true
and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief?

Ms. xxxxx: Yes, they are.

Mr. Deppeller: If no changes were made, yes they are.

Ms. Lamont: We also have some other documents that were submitted by the
claimants, notably C-1a, which was an additional amended narrative?

Ms. Sobstel: Yes

Ms. Lamont: And sir do you also verify that that additional narrative is also
true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief?

Mr. Deppeller: Yes.

Ms. Lamont: Okay, now at this time Mr. Fraser is going to be asking you some questions, and I'm going to remind you to please answer all the questions he asks you. If you don't understand a question, then tell Mr. Fraser, and I'm sure he?ll rephrase. It's my wish that you're going to be as comfortable as you can be in today's proceedings. I also want to advise you that when either one of you are testifying, the other person is not to interfere with the testimony. The other person will be provided an opportunity to testify at a later time. Okay? Mr. Fraser?
Mr. Fraser: I'd just like to remind you that your counsel, myself and the panel have all of the documents that were addressed earlier and we?ve reviewed them all, so we won't be asking you to repeat the content of those documents here today. But we have some questions certainly about the evidence before the panel. The first question for you, Mr. Deppeller, is what is it that you believe will happen to you if you were to return to the United States?

Mr. Deppeller: Anything ranging from harrassment to? murder. Can I say the word murder? Accidents that are arranged; that could be the worst. Accusations or charges of a misleading character that castigate me as a terrorist, and other forms of harrassment that would be designed to keep me silent about the information that I've received. Including harrassment, but not limited to mere harrassment. Does that answer the question?

Mr. Fraser: Well, in some sense it does. Is there a specific?..you?ve given us quite a broad range of things; is there a specific? is there something specific that you think will happen to you?

Mr. Deppeller: I would not put it past the agencies that are involved in the interference in our lives to arrange to have accidents, and I have numerous examples in the research that I've completed and numerous examples that have been given to me of those that have died under mysterious circumstances in their attempts to bring forth the facts that I allege are the source of this interference.

Mr. Fraser: What kinds of accidents?

Mr. Deppeller: Let me speak about the microbiologists; colleagues of the principals that are involved in the research that I've been privy to. For example, one in Houston last year, in the summer, was leaving his building of employment at a university, and a van "coincidentally" jumped over the sidewalk, ran him down, and disappeared; a hit-and-run, and he died. He was dead on arrival at the local hospital. There were several witnesses that came forward, and we don't know the final disposition of that investigation; it's just one in particular. This is a favored method of "removal" road-side accidents that can be "investigated" and obviously the facts may show there was a "mechanical malfunctioning", etc etc, but these are in fact methods by which people have been silenced, and it is a very real fear that we have.

Mr. Fraser: Okay; where do you get the information about for example this accident?

Mr. Deppeller: Another example, Gus Weiss was pushed over the balcony of the Watergate after providing me with documentation; the evidence comes not only from those who have been giving me the information, according to the allegations I have made; they also can be verified by news reports in the local papers. I believe it was the Houston Chronicle that was able to verify in a small byline that this death had occurred; no mention was made, although it was given to us to understand that the death had been arranged, and that is again by the "insiders" that have provided this information.

Mr. Fraser: And how do you contact these sources?

Mr. Deppeller: If you are speaking of the sources that I refer to as "inside sources", these are sources that have made themselves known to us either by direct correspondence after I had volunteered my name and address in early 2002 and also during the period from last October 2nd [2003], my birthday, coincidentally, when a discussion group began at a large online community which anyone in the public can attend [GLP, or godlikeproductions.com] and those sources identified themselves with information that we were able to corroborate independently so that we could trust the information they gave to us was indeed factual and correct.

Mr. Fraser: And how were you able to corroborate ?. I understand you were able to corroborate that an accident or a death took place, but how were you able to corroborate that it was, as I think you are implying, an "arranged" murder, actually?

Mr. Deppeller: If I could use the example of Gus Weiss, who was a senior adviser to a number of US presidents; at the time of his death he was in his late seventies, and he was pushed over the balcony of the Watergate, as I indicated. He was allegedly the individual responsible for providing me with the classified data discs that had some of the scientific proof regarding the allegations that I make. The mention was made that he had met with an untimely accident in that?..give me a moment to recall the exact phraseology "the pull of gravity" ..Mr. Weiss and the pull of gravity had an "entanglement", or words to that effect, and then it was days later that an article appeared in the Washington Post and the sources then pointed this out and then through our group of fellow researchers from around the world who were also able to go to various news organizations and verify that this death had occurred, and we had been warned before it had been made public that this would occur.

Mr. Fraser: Okay, sorry; you said you'd been notified the death would occur, is that correct?

Mr. Deppeller: Yes, that Mr. Weiss would meet with an untimely engagement with the pull of gravity ?.there was a darkly comical nature to the way that the phraseology is used by these alleged insiders who provide this information to our group.

Mr. Fraser: And what did you do when you received this information that Mr. Weiss would meet an untimely ...?

Mr. Deppeller: Well we noted it; it was certainly a reminder to us that the information we were receiving, and that I then received through the mails, here in Canada, the data discs, were in fact legitimate and that the issues were very real and very serious. It was also a poignant reminder that we were to be extremely careful in our further research of these allegations.

Mr. Fraser: Now I want to make sure I understand this. You're saying that you had been warned before Mr. Weiss died, that he would be killed, is that correct?

Mr. Deppeller: Okay; an indication was made that he would be found dead, and that he would meet an untimely end or demise, in his efforts; and we didn't think much of that because we heard a lot of this kind of "stuff'; we did hear murmurings from various anonymous participants in the discussion group, and then I would say probably within a week's time to two week?s time the information was made available through the online news services that are recognized as news organizations, such as Reuter's, the Washington Post, the BBC, etc, and the media confirmed through the obituaries that this had indeed occurred. Although the media ruling that it was "accidental".

Mr. Fraser: So why didn't you take this information very seriously?

Mr. Deppeller: Oh we DID take it very seriously. That was exactly part of our process that has brought us here.

Mr. Fraser: I mean the information about ?.. the indication that Mr. Weiss would die, be killed.

Mr. Deppeller: We didn't know who the individual was at the time. In fact, much of the information that we have received regarded individuals, events, and issues which we only later would learn the importance of. And this was a seeming characteristic of the interaction that our group had with these individuals who, to my understanding, were attempting to bring forward this information to the public and were using our group and/or manipulating our group? I cannot specify with any certainty that we were not being manipulated?. But that this is the modus operandi of this group of, I call them "patriotic insiders", those that knew that these activities were wrong and were attempting to publicize them through a group of average public citizens that were interested in finding out the truth in these matters.

Mr. Fraser: Great. And since Mr. Weiss? death, have you contacted any law enforcement officials with respect to the fact that you had, prior to his death, received an indication that he would be killed?

Mr. Deppeller: No, because we didn't even understand the importance of Mr. Weiss. I had no knowledge of his contributions to the public welfare and his past history until his obituary was written, and it was only in retrospect that we learned of his contributions, and his importance. And again, through numerous other participants in this discussion community we learned?..we have no factual documentation that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was he, but the indications were that this was in retribution for him arranging to have this sensitive, classified data ?..what is known as a "scratch disc"? provided to me and a copy to an individual I will refer to as our "librarian", who has been compiling all of the data that we have received from the numerous insiders.

Mr. Fraser: I guess I'm just curious. I mean regardless of Mr. Weiss? importance to the matters that you're investigating?.don't you think that the police or, you know, legitimate law enforcement authorities, would want to have information about a death they may think is an accident but in actuality is really a murder? Don't you think they'd want to have that kind of information to investigate correctly?

Mr. Deppeller: Yes, and for that to have taken place would require the type of massive documentation that I have been trying to compile over the past 6, 8, 10 months; we've attempted to do just that. In fact, we do have, but again, it goes to the heart of your question, sir; that much of these allegations are disdained by law enforcement because of the so-called "online nature" in the fact that they can be, that in fact, unless a detailed analysis of the time and date stamps of these postings are done, there is very little that can connect them to any real individuals. Which would not aid in any effort, and any attempt to do so, and I can give another example at this point for this, any attempt to do so would result in harrassment of any individual who attempted to bring forth a claim prematurely. Which is precisely what our group has been attempting to do, is to compile a thorough body of evidence that, in its totality, can show that these things are of a piece...are related, and not independent of each other.

Mr. Fraser: So, you never did approach the police with this information that
you had been made aware of this?

Mr. Deppeller: If I could give another example?..The lead researcher in this case, that led us to feel that we were being harrassed when we were in the United States; she had fled from Nevada where she had been investigating this case and moved to Kirchener, Ontario, allegedly because it would be safer in Canada and she felt that it was as well and she indicated as much to me. At the same time that this was happening with Mr. Weiss, it was before that, in September [2003], approximately two months prior to that, to the Gus Weiss incident, that the individual, known as BJ Wolf, who I refer to as moving to Kirchener, Ontario, who was the lead researcher in the case of Dr. Burisch, had her website taken down, and her email blocked, and she indicated that she was extremely anxious, upset, and beginning to become very paranoid as she was again under surveillance, even in Kirchener, and then suddenly she went silent. The second lead investigator into the case became intimidated and notified me that he was closing down his investigation because he had received an anonymous manila folder that had been sent anonymously containing pictures of Ms. Wolf inside of her apartment, with no text, no accompanying letter, simply these pictures to indicate Ms. Wolf was still alive, but that she was incommunicado.

Ms. Lamont: Sir, sir, I'm going to have to stop you there. You haven't answered Mr. Fraser's question. Could you please ask it again and if you could you please answer it?

Mr. Fraser: Thank you. My question was just that I wanted you to confirm my understanding that you have never gone to the police with the information that, prior to Mr. Weiss, death, you had been notified he would be killed?

Mr. Deppeller: That's correct. I've been too intimidated to go to law enforcement and his is only one of many deaths.

Mr. Fraser: Thank you. I know you have a rather large story to tell, but I'm going to ask you, again because we have so much documentation on file, that I'm going to ask you to listen very carefully to the questions.

Mr. Deppeller: I apologize

Mr. Fraser: And of course your counsel will be able to ask more questions of you later. And with respect, .you say you're too intimidated to go to the police, what is it that you think, or you felt, that going to the police would result in? If you had gone to the police, what do you think their reaction would have been?

Mr. Deppeller: Disbelief and scorn.

Mr. Fraser: And why? Why would they have had that reaction?

Mr. Deppeller: Because the agency that is responsible for this has powers that
supercede local law enforcement. I believe my narrative discusses how they are able to over-ride the police and the police would not respond to my calls. When I first phoned the local police in Washington, and they made an appearance, were approached by the agency that had us under surveillance, and then they would never return calls. So I didn't believe it would be effective to call the police.

Mr. Fraser: And what agency is it in particular you are referring to?

Mr. Deppeller: Majestic 12.

Ms. Lamont: District 12?

Mr. Deppeller: Majestic 12. Authorized by President Harry Truman in the National Security Act of 1947.

Mr. Fraser: And what U.S. department does this Majestic 12 report to?

Mr. Deppeller: Majestic 12 is above the President of the United States, and it deputizes any and all elements of any agency that is a part of the United States government, by direct authority established and commissioned in the 1947 National Security Act. The Director of Central Intelligence is always a member of Majestic 12. The President does not even have the clearance the members of Majestic 12 have, because in a democracy, he can be installed or uninstalled by election by the people, and it was felt at the time that the Majestic 12, the commission, that the information was of too much importance that it should not be held hostage to the vagueries of a democracy.

Mr. Fraser: Okay now, aren't you going to refer to some of the documents that were disclosed to the file; I'm referring to some of the documents I've disclosed to the file here, documents such as the Constitution of the United States and the American Bill of Rights, and none of these documents which are the founding documents in our historical understanding and development of the United States, which framed the country as a constitutional democracy, so I'm wondering how it's possible, given those documents, that such an organization as Majestic 12 could exist, that had been created by the President, that would supercede the authority of the President? It seems, and if I could ask you to respond to this, it seems somewhat implausible.

Mr. Deppeller: Correct. And in fact, it is the contention of those that have given us the information, that have given us the names, identities and pass codes of numerous members of this organization, which are usually mid-level admirals and generals, and believe me there are more admirals than generals, despite the nature of the information; they also include scientific advisers. These names have been given. I will with-hold them at this time. but it is certainly true that it is a travesty that such a group is allowed to operate, and even though it had been given this commission in its formation with the best of intentions, there have been many that have been a part of this group and in fact there are still factions of varying philosophical backgrounds, many of which are good-hearted civil servants and are trying to do the right thing, and some of which are not and are simply using the information for the advancement of the corporate interests that they have come from, the backgrounds that they are part of, and have misused and mishandled this information. And it is a travesty that it is allowed to go on. Because that's why these people, we believe, have come to us; because it is anti-constitutional and it is a FLAGRANT violation of the Bill of Rights.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. Ummm?..

Ms. Lamont: I'm not sure you've answered the question, sir.

Mr. Deppeller: He asked me if it was implausible?

Ms. Lamont: Well, he asked how it is POSSIBLE that this organization is allowed to conduct itself in the United States when it's not listed in any of the documents that we have before us.

Mr. Deppeller: I do have; I've brought with me a selection of some of these documents, they are available online but I was told by counsel that no further information would be allowed to be submitted at this time. The majority of the documents that outline the authority given to Majestic 12 and consequent documents over some of the activities that have surfaced have been made available and authorized, validated, verified and corroborated by a group that has an online presence, known as majesticdocuments.com, and this group includes many retired, senior level military officials, and they go on record and authenticate these documents which give the power to this group, but I was told that no further information would be acceptable.

Ms. Lamont: Sir, do you have any documents from the United States government; I'm not talking about persons that you're talking to online.

Mr. Deppeller: Yes, these are the documents I am referring to; there are documents that are in the possession of this group; copies of these documents, scanned copies of the original documents with watermarks, etc, have been made available. Just because they are available online does not mean they are simply conversations online; they can be verified by any individual who goes to look at them; they are authentic, watermarked, U.S. government documents, and as indicated I do have copies in our vehicle?we brought them but were told we would not be allowed to submit any additional documentation.

Ms. Lamont: Well, I'm not sure sir what it is you have. You're talking about documents you pulled offline?.

Mr. Deppeller: Signed by President Harry Truman; I mean I don't have the original the copy was made from, I have a copy of the actual document. In other words, this document is a real document, and if it was signed by your Honor, and then this document then would be scanned and an image of it placed online, with an accompanying affidavit verifying that the watermark was checked and verified that it was ascertained to be a real government document, that copy is available for the Member and for the officer and counsel. I do have copies I have made of those original documents. I'm sorry ma'am, I'm trying to understand and answer your.

Ms. Lamont: Well, do you have any explanation for why Mr. Fraser, in his research, in trying to understand the Constitution of the United States and its strictures, was unable to produce any of the documents that you are talking about?

Mr. Deppeller: Because of the nature of the information. When President Truman had authorized this group, the preceeding group out of which this group was established, the personnel were drawn from the Department of War (at that time), and a national security directive, NSC5412 ? which again is another authentic U.S. gov't. document "was " commissioned by Eisenhower, then - Gen. Eisenhower, later Pres. Eisenhower, and it was believed and agreed to by the President, and the generals, and by those leading members of Congress, and the Director of Central Intelligence, and the advisers they had, that this information was too explosive, that the people should [not] know, that it should not be part of the public record. And in fact, that has been one of the governing principles of this group; it is not officially existent. It is only through the efforts of either civilians or retired military members who have been part of this effort that have brought forward to light the few documents we have. I would be more than happy to provide direct documentation, speaking of my involvement, from the director of investigations for majesticdocuments.com that would verify the authenticity of these government documents.

Mr. Fraser: I just have one follow-up question; in addition to the documents I've mentioned earlier, I've disclosed some documents from human-rights organizations such as Amnesty International, The International Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights, about the human rights situation in the United States; in addition I've disclosed documents about the USA Patriot Act from the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union. All of these organizations are well-respected international human rights organizations and these documents I would say, if I can just colloquially say, they appear to be quite critical of the American government. I'm wondering, you're saying this organization's been in existence for almost 50 years, or over 50 years, why wouldn't these organizations be aware of and complaining about and reporting on the existence of an organization like Majestic Twelve, if it in fact existed?

Mr. Deppeller: With all due modesty I think that the group that I work with of other average citizens has come across a larger, has put together a larger section of this puzzle than has heretofore ever been uncovered, although there have been many instances in the past 50 years in which there have been these types of accidental deaths, shall we say, that have occurred, and yet few people have been able to link them, other than to be castigated as conspiracy theorists, and this is the major methodology that is used by this group to cast aspersion on any claims that could result in an investigation by the public government of their activities.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. Supposing that I had the requisite technical knowledge and I knew where to look, could I go on the internet and attain, in essence, all the information which you have presented today in your file about Dr. Burisch, the Ganesh Particle, the Tau 9 treaty, and so on?

Mr. Deppeller: No.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. And what is it about you, that has made it possible for you to go on the internet and make contacts and obtain this information?

Mr. Deppeller: I believe it's because I took the information seriously, to my utter chagrin, in retrospect. I took the information seriously and I began to put the pieces of this puzzle together early on. And I believe that's what led to the initial surveillance; I didn't merely go to view the eaglesdisobey website, which contained the original Q94-109a Document, an authentic government document, I also made frequent visits to the aboveblack.com website, which contains the true account of Sgt. Dan Sherman, and his involvement with Project Preserve Destiney, perhaps the highest-ranking Majestic project.

Mr. Fraser: Okay, but apart from the fact that you took the information seriously,

Mr. Deppeller: And then I received correspondence from the individuals; snail-
mail correspondence, and then after perhaps they had felt that they had done their job and harrassed us out of the United States and we were quietly in Canada and we were no longer "raising a stink" I think is the way I was referred to, I was just a "hell-raiser" or a just making trouble, they felt they had done their job then it becomes evident to a number of these insiders that I'm having a discussion with a number of other people in this online discussion group where I thought I was safe and they find us probably because they use the Echelon and Carnivore software programs to keep tabs on individuals such as myself; and that these individuals then had private conversations during which they would give us information, and they would tell us of rendezvous? in the real world which we would then arrange to have ?.well they claim I have agents working all over the United States; I want to be on record that I have only my enquiring mind and my friendship with others like myself who have been looking into this. I do not have a "terrorist network" of agents on the ground that I can manipulate at a moment's notice to be at a rendezvous when a certain event is predicted by these people. I'm trying to be as short and concise as possible, sir. But this information would be given to me, it wasn't available on line to just anyone else; the subject is contained in the Yahoo Messenger medium, and that's not available to just anyone online.

Mr. Fraser: I guess the essence of my question is, could somebody posing as an investigator, or somebody with a genuine interest in this subject, be able to make appropriate contacts and get this information? I mean.

Mr. Deppeller: No.

Mr. Fraser: ?..your background is, what's your background sir, professionally?

Mr. Deppeller: Civic activist is what I prefer to call myself. I'm an industrial distributor. I sell tools and hardware.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. And do you have any professional training?

Mr. Deppeller: As an investigator?

Mr. Fraser: Yeah, as an investigator, or in law enforcement, or as a researcher?

Mr. Deppeller: No, I don't have degrees in any of those, I haven't taken courses in any of those.

Mr. Fraser: Right. Okay, so I guess that I'm saying that could someone go online, posing with your kind of interest, that you genuinely have, in this subject, and obtain the kind of information you have?

Mr. Deppeller: Some of it, much of it, yes, they could; if they were, as a student observer, being able to sift through and make a determination, yes. That's assuming that you have the personal contacts with some of the other individuals that you share information with in the medium, such as Bill Hamilton, at the University of Southern California, who is a "genuine" researcher.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. When did you buy your house in Washington?

Mr. Deppeller: In March of 2002.

Mr. Fraser: Okay. And after you had this problem with the van, you said you went to the police; what did you say to the police?

Mr. Deppeller: The initial conversation was with my friend who was a sergeant, and I called him to tell him that because of the sniper being reported in a white van, it occurred to us that this white van, which we'd never thought too much about before, had been parked in front of our house all hours of the day and night, and initially beginning in April, shortly after we had moved, in fact it might have been there from the moment we moved; we didn?t think too much about it, but when I first phoned the police about it, I phoned my friend, and I said I think we have this white van, it's been a suspicious van, its been here all these months, it may be this van. He said, "Well good, can you get me the license plate number" and I said sure. I went to look for it and the white van was missing during that very month of the sniper attack, leading me to believe that it was a government-associated van, even though it had that we later tracked to a bedroom community of McDill Air Force Base, where CENTCOM was located and it was a major NSA facility. It was not a local license plate, but it was gone for the precise time the sniper was in action.

Mr. Fraser: I guess that my question was what did you say specifically to the police?

Mr. Deppeller: Okay, I said "I think this white van is suspicious" and they said "Get me the license plate number" so we had to wait several weeks and then when the snipers were caught, the white van returned, and then we got the license plate number. I called the police back and then left a message on my friend's machine at the precinct, I said "Ronnie, you know that van? Well, it's back, and I don't know if they caught the real snipers or not but here's the license plate for it." Well, he never returned the call, never phoned me back after that, he never dropped into my shop where he used to come in for coffee every so often, being that it was a local precinct; I never saw hide nor hair of him after that exchange, and we didn't even have an exchange because, again, this was information left with him ?..you know I phoned several times after that, again I said "Ronnie, could you PLEASE call me back, I’ve left several messages for you", I then spoke with the receptionist, the dispatcher, and she’d say "Oh he’s here, he’s around, just leave him another voicemail". I think that after 6 or 7 attempts and not seeing him that perhaps he too might have been intimidated or warned not to get involved. Now that’s my speculation, but those are the facts as you’ve asked for them.

Mr. Fraser: Right. Thank you. Did you have any further contact with the police
about the matter?

Mr. Deppeller: Yes, in a manner of speaking. I did also phone the local police
when I could not get ahold of my friend, and I reported that we had this
suspicious white van and I was upset because it seemed to be stalking, and my
wife can explain later about her efforts to find out about this, and apparently on a couple of occasions, and apparently perhaps as a result of that phone call, as well as our neighbor Mrs. O’Neill, a police officer would be sitting where the white van would be, or a police officer would come by the white van, and we watched on one occasion where the officer went to knock on the window, the window was rolled down, something was shown to the officer, who put his hand up, backed away and went back to his police cruiser immediately, and that was the last we heard of that.

On another instance, we believe it was Mrs. O’Neill who had a police officer waiting, she was very upset about this white van, she was a local from the neighborhood, where the police officer was parked where the white van usually was, so it could observe our house, and when the white van came up and saw the police cruiser, he slowed down and turned around and stopped, and then went back around the block and then came back slowly past the officer and put his hand out the window and we saw as the white van slowly went by the cruiser as if to wave him to follow him. At that time we thought the policeman was going to pull over the white van and finally the harassment would stop. I was on my way out the door when I observed this choreography and I thought "Well good, I’m going over a few blocks away and see my friend" and so I did, and I thought I would look down the side street that the police cruiser would have pulled the van over and was checking him out. It was only a minute or so later, but there was no police cruiser in sight. In fact, as I continued down the street, I saw that as I was looking to see if the white van had been pulled over, the white van was following me, was shadowing me. Whatever he had done with the policeman in that cruiser, he was able to let that policeman know that he had more important business and the policeman was not to be involved. So as he shadowed me, each block we drove up, and the white van would look at me as I was watching him, I became very upset, I became very intimidated and then the white van came down one street and followed me.

Mr. Fraser: Okay, but what further contact did you have with the police about
this matter?

Mr. Deppeller: I stopped calling the police because I didn't think that they
could do anything.

Mr. Fraser: Did you complain to the police about their lack of reaction?

Mr. Deppeller: I phoned my friend again after that, so that was one, that was
maybe the last phone call I had left for Ronnie, because I explained that I
still had not gotten a phone call back, and I had called the local precinct,
and with all the information that I was not only learning, and with this
interaction that was going on, with this van, I felt that the police were
powerless. I’m sorry; the indications were showing me that the police were
powerless, that whoever was in control of the surveillance, superceded the
power of the police.

[end of Part I of 4 more to come...]