MJ: Don are you online?
Yahoo! Messenger: MJ may be offline. If so,
the message will still be sent and they will see it next time they
log in. (1/24/2004 6:25 PM)
Dondep: sadly I missed you!~
MJ: Are you still online?
Dondep: yes!
MJ: Okay- He sent another file through and I have it.
Dondep: in conference with the gang. can you send thru here?
click
on images to enlarge
MJ: This one shows the alien cells the stem cells. –– I can try.
Dondep: okay, standing by.... (hope there is a caption)
MJ: No. –– I can call him and you can listen in?
Dondep: yes!
MJ: I may be difficult to see which one is which. We will both print as MJ2.
Dondep: I will be able to tell. – okay, opened file.
MJ: XXXX, this is Xxxxxxxxxxx, over.
MJ: It could take a minute, Dondep:.
Dondep: (BTW, can we ask him if he can, in his own words, advise why we can't
make all Danchat available for a few weeks? We don't want to jeopardize you
all.)
DAN: Go ahead Xxxxxx.
MJ: Hey Dano, I need some info from you.
DAN: Yes?
Dondep: The picture; what is the caption?
MJ: The POStest4, it was sent thru at 1200 UT?
DAN: You mean, yesterday.
MJ: Yea that one.
DAN: Okay, so? What can I do for you, sir? I need a street name, sir.
MJ: XXXXXXXX.
DAN: Okay...what?
MJ: I need a caption for it: the image.
DAN: Caption?
MJ: Yes a caption.
DAN: Okay...well... the image is devoid of a sizing bar as well...it
is just a test image sent to J.The title POStest, actually stands for "Piece
of S."
Dondep: lol!
DAN: It was a test shot
with the new cinema unit.
MJ: What can I say about it?
DAN: To whom?
Dondep: lordly! but, there are 2 pics.... to Dondep:, to drbknows
MJ: Yea, Dano, they are side by side.
MJ: I would like to tell someone that knows,
like you do.
DAN: You are telling me that Dr. B knows?
MJ: Yes I am!
DAN: GREAT!
MJ: Okay...
Dondep: (my username! –drbknows)
DAN: The image is a side by side comparison,
of a 1000 diameter mag oil shot from the Spallanzani test. This particular
grouping of protocells
Dondep: oil, as in petroleum?
MJ: What do you mean by oil?
DAN: Immersion Oil, for the 100X objective. It concentrates the path
of light, so that we can resolve at that mag.
MJ: ok! I understand - go on please with the descript.
Dondep: so, the differences between the 2 shots....
DAN: Sure. The image to the right has
been highly colorized with the color wheel in my image processing software...sb
I will get you a spec on the name... It was done in the Microsoft Digital Image
Pro 9. The Hue/Saturation wheel was applied to the right image to bring out
differences in color.
DAN: I wanted, with the right image to specifically bring out the mitochondria
and their configuration around a membrane bound nucleus to establish the internal
orientations of those two organelles within the protocells.
DAN: SB I have to bring the image up for further.
MJ: ok
Dondep: these are GP protocells then?
MJ: These are GP protocells then?
DAN: Yes.
MJ: sb
Dondep: (I swear I need a crash-course in biology to ask the right questions.
Thank him later for being patient with us.)
DAN: Okay, then...here we
go. I have the image up. Concentrating on the left image...
Dondep: right, light blue field.
DAN: The upper left cell in this partially
anastomosed mass is from an earlier generation in the production of the protocells.
If I were to describe its relationship to the central cell (the largest mass)
I would say that the upper left cell is much younger (in terms of a few hours
maturation) and that it is only partially formed. The central mass is a fully
functioning eukaryote. May I direct you to certain areas of intrigue on this
cell?
MJ: y
DAN: Okay...
Dondep: (listening intently....)
DAN: Looking at the upper left cell,
a portion of a Shiva Linga like apparatus is still visible. This brings great
concern to me, not only for cellular life cycle and presenting staging, If
you orient the image so that it appears as though the...aaaah....well...lets
say bunny ear pseudopodium is at a 90 degree angle from the bottom of the
screen, then we can cast our eyes directly downward between the two "ears" until
we reach the yellow patch near the center bottom of this particular cell.
That round patch of yellow is one portion of a protonucleus.
Dondep: (near the Panama Canal feature on the lower half?)
DAN: Should you look carefully at that
yellow disk, at the 1600-1800 positions, you should find a small, light appearing
multiple loop object, circumscribing the disk. That is the Shiva Linga.
MJ: I am looking Dano.
MJ: Dano, can I ask you a really big favor?
DAN: What?
MJ: Can you bring that out for me?
DAN: Now?
MJ: Please.
DAN: Ya...sb
MJ: sb
Dondep: (our new code, is this emoticon: ....in text. whether here or on thread.---to
know friend or foe)
MJ: He us cutting an image, once I get it I will send it over. What do you
mean? Oh. Okay.
Dondep: doesn't hurt to be safe....
MJ: Hold on, I can see him working.
Dondep: great.....big debate in group with small faction that wants all behind-thread
chat released immediately, with no edits, etc
MJ: ok, not this name though please.
Dondep: absolutely. –– But we are not circulating the transcripts
just yet (within 30 days), unless you and he want all this chat posted (with
names changed of course)
MJ: No, not right now, they could narrow me quickly.
Dondep: We understood the timing may endanger you, and our big preparation.
Thank you for clarifying.
click on images to enlarge
DAN: Okay...Xxxxx...it is set as POStest4cut.jpg.
Take a look at it. I will warn you that this is not a data cut as I just threw
it together for demo purposes. IT CANNOT BE USED WITH THE MODEL DATA IN ANY
WAY. I put blue arrows at the Shiva Linga's top and bottom visual rings and
white arrows as a width-perspective item. Take a look.
MJ: ok, hold on Dano, I will look and also you know.
DAN: On now?
MJ: Yes with me, watching.
Dondep: okay, as long as we can show the true value of what these images represent.
DAN: HEY!!!! Tell Don hi!
MJ: Dondep: okay, as long as we can show the true value of what these images
represent.
DAN: It
does. ––The
colors are just off.
Dondep: He knows! Tell him we love him, of course; we truly value his time
with us.
MJ: Dondep: He knows! Tell him we love him, of course; we truly value his time
with us.
DAN: I value the time to speak with good people.
Dondep: D-day less than 30, BTW
MJ: Okay...back to the image.
Dondep: okay, new image on screen.
MJ: Okay- he has the new image up.
DAN: Can you see the rings?
MJ: I can. Let me see if dd can.
Dondep: between all the arrows?–– a chain of about 5?
MJ: That is it. –– Yes, he can.
DAN: That is the terminal end of the Shiva Linga as it enters the protonucleus.
If you go back now, to the large image, and look at it in place, I can describe
further.
Dondep: which, the chain of 5? That is the Shiva Linga then....
DAN: Locate it on the large image.
MJ: Yes.
Dondep: okay, have large image in front.
DAN: Have you located the chain on the
large image? If not I can send a sighter image.
Dondep: near where the younger cell appears to join the main mass?
MJ: I am not sure he can. Will you send a sight image?
DAN: Yes, sb.
MJ: (what a guy!)
Dondep: so, am I at the right place on the larger image then?
MJ: Hold on he is cutting another one.
DAN: Okay XXXXX...it's on cut2.jpg.
click on images to enlarge
MJ: Fine.
DAN: When you bring it up on screen,
the black arrow shows the SL's terminal end and the red arrows outline
a briefly visible larger section of the SL before is tapers.
MJ: Can he see that?
Dondep: yep! see it now.
MJ: yes, he does.
DAN: Great!
DAN: There are many other features so this...but
I am highlighting this and the next thing for a reason... Okay...this cell
mass is, as I referenced, a younger protocell, than the middle cell. Go to
the middle cell on the right image. The middle large mass.
DAN: There is a moral here...bear
with me.
Dondep: (the original image?)
click
on images to enlarge
MJ: Dondep: (the original image?)
DAN: Yes.
Dondep: 'k
MJ: he has it
DAN: Do you see the yellow patch in the near center of the mass?
Dondep: yes, copy.
MJ: ga d
DAN: Okay...the pretty pink items that surround it are mitochondria.
If you look at the same image, and scan upward to the upper cell, you will
not find such an regularly shaped (football in this case) mitochondrion in
the upper cell mass... THEY ARE STILL FORMING IN THE UPPER CELL!!!!! This could
diverge us into a discussion of the evolutionary relationships between hydrogenosomes
and mictochondria, but BORING for our purposes here (in this venue) I think.
DAN: Now, may I send dd another image?
Dondep: so, the mitochondrion in the larger cell is new tissue? Rejuvenated,
the healthy growth? (yes, please send)
MJ: You have more in your scratch file?
MJ: Dondep: so, the mitochondrion in the larger cell is new tissue? Rejuvenated,
the healthy growth? (yes, please send)
DAN: The mitochondrion is
in the act of first forming, originally having been assembled
through the actions of the GP from denatured protein in heat/pressure
sterilized beef broth.
DAN: Okay...I will rack
up the next one...he will like this...the moral is still coming...
MJ: ok
DAN: I have to do a cut I think, so sb.
Dondep: standing by patiently....
MJ: Oh God I know what he getting ready to show you- I won't tell you the ending.....
Dondep: long as the punch line is worth it!!
MJ: It is
DAN: Okay...cut 3 and 4. Send XXXX.
click on images to enlarge
DAN: ok
MJ: Let me know when you are ready for 4 dd.
Dondep: okay, ready for 4.
click on images to enlarge
MJ: Sending
DAN: Have dd let me know if these two images are clear. Sometimes we
lose clarity when changing from .png to .jpg.
MJ: ok
Dondep: 3 is very articulate. very clear.
MJ: Dondep: 3 is very articulate. very clear.
Dondep: 4 is a bit blurrier, but is very functional.
MJ: Okay...that was removed from an online pub. No ref is attached to it so
beware of demo'ing.
MJ: Dondep: 4 is a bit blurrier, but is very functional.
DAN: Okay...can you see the item pointed to by the red arrow?
Dondep: yes, like a lunar crater.
DAN: That item is an elongated mitochondrion
hypothesized to be undergoing the process outlined in cut3. That item is found
in a protocell from the GP movies that you already have.
Dondep: (I thought they were in the center of cells?) Yes, I recognize the
similarity.
DAN: Not these.... You should
know that such organelles are normal strewn throughout the cytoplasm
of a cell, the number and nuances found with each particular
to the type of cell, its function, ect. You may notice the shape
DAN: These, however, are abnormally
positioned.–– The inlay on the middle image shows
the match. Okay...So you can see where it was...her comes
another...moral still building........
Dondep: Is the inlay from one of the vid clips we have?
DAN: here comes... The blue bordered images
are enhancements of stills taken from the same series as the vid clips you
have.
DAN: Okay...sb
DAN: Send him 5 Xxxxx.
click on images to enlarge
DAN: The arrow in this image points
to like positions, so you can see where the protocell's orientation,
and thus the orientation of the elongated mitochondrion. The
mass on the left is from the same vid sequence series that you
have.
Dondep: and the image on the right is a close-up of ?
DAN: The protocell in the GP activate
mass, on the left. You may also note the overall similarity in the structure
MJ: I got you two direct know...I will
step back...
DAN: Thanks...Xxxxx.
DAN: Hey Don!
Dondep: thanks Xxxxx...Hey Dan!
DAN: Okay...drum rolls please for the
moral....
Dondep: I need a major crash-course in
biology! –– go on....
DAN: I have good news for
you...this is all new! So you are as much an expert as a Darwinian!
Now...
Dondep: I would hope more than a Darwinian! Aren't we trying to change that
paradigm, anyway?!?–– go on....sorry....
DAN: It's changing itself!
If these cells are undergoing a process similar to that which is
understood in the diagram I sent, then
Dondep: #3?
DAN: The one with the drawings. I think
(once you see the words on it) you can understand my reluctance to muck around
with it much. On the other hand... The production of new cells, and for all
practical purposes ones that have no other terrestrial ancestor (breaking from
the biotic theory), may give us two pieces of information (really more) that
can become incredibly important. First, we have come to accept in the serial
endosymbiotic theory of eukaryte origins, championed by Lynn Margulis.
DAN: ...that mitochondria
were once (in the history of life on earth) a variety (maybe
more than one) of free living prokaryotes, a bacteria if you
will. The earlier production of mito's (for mitochondria) in
the image 5, for instance, could not be determined as having
not come from conserved genomic material originally as part of
the target cell.
Dondep: how so?
DAN: (The cell that the GP attached to,
then invaded into the nuclear area) because...
The Shiva Linga entered the target cell's nucleus and engaged in an information
exchange
...and I think you may have a visual of that in your library...let me see the
image name...sb
Dondep: and then learned he was from good ole earth? (standing by)
DAN: Right, I need a rr break as this
racks up...it will take a minute anyway...so I will be right back.
MJ: Okay...do you have burischtrichome0287?
Dondep: checking now....
click on images to enlarge
DAN: The image you are downloading
will show the shiva linga on the left...a transference of material
in the middle (the apparent box was put there on purpose just
to highlight the area), and the nucleus of the target cell on
the bottom right. This is going on before the protocells ever
form from the Ganesh Particle. So, we cannot rule out that information
could have been provided from the target cell to the protocells,
thus passing the code to form mito's. This is ruled out, however,
in the Spallanzani experiment. Therefore the coded genomic material
for the production of a mito must have come from elsewhere.
Dondep: as in, not from this planet?
DAN: So, unless we want to suppose that
there exists a mito on the other side of the void (shiva portal from whence
the................ EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! THE MORAL!
Dondep: Found the pic! with you
now....
DAN: It really hurts the
endosymbiotic theory, to a certain extent, but we cannot say
that... endosymbiosis doesn't occur...it does! We can produce
protoendosymbionts from bacteria that are swallowed by, let's
say...an amoeba.
DAN: We know that...but just as
the larger lotus theory is most probably going to cause some
difficulty ( English understatement applied) with many aspects
of the Neo-Darwinian's version of a macroevolutionary theory,
so to we find that the macro-attribution to the endosymbiotic
theory is likewise going to be in trouble, once we fully posit
this as an alternative theory to the larger part of Darwinian
evolutionary process.
MJ: DD I had to cut him off after that
sorry. I have to cut as well for security.
Dondep: gotcha. thanks so much; had so many q's, but all in his own good time.
